Wednesday, September 2, 2009

Response to Elle's, "Muslims, Christians, and the Ottoman Empire."

Elle, a few comments on your investigation.

You began by asserting that Islam (specifically the Ottoman Empire) and Christianity became more strict and responsible as time passed. However, you provided no evidence to support your claim. Instead, you quickly moved on to discussing Columbus' explorations of the New World, and the harshness of devshirmes; neither of which relates at all to the development of responsibility or strictness in Christian or Muslim civilizations.

In fact, I would consider the kidnapping of young children to be an irresponsible act, yet it continued for roughly half of Ottoman history. The devshirme system only fell out of practice in the 17th century because these positions were only available to slaves, and those who were already at the upper echelon of society wanted to maintain political control within their own families (instead of giving away positions of power to slaves). Therefore, the Devshirme system fell apart due to a thirst for worsening the imbalance of power, not because the Ottomans strived to become a more responsible society.

Also, I find it difficult to accept your notion that an entity can become more responsible and strict simultaneously. When one becomes more responsible, strictness loses its purpose because they are sensible enough to make wise decisions. This concept is analogous to raising a child; as it grows up you don’t need to have as many rules for it, because it becomes more and more capable of taking care of itself.

Lastly, if you have evidence supporting the claim that the Ottoman Empire or Christianity (although due to its widespread nature and diversity, it could prove difficult to pinpoint its specific characteristics) became more strict and/or responsible as it developed through modern history, I’d love to hear it.

3 comments:

  1. Cy I think that what Elle was trying to say is that they got smarter and knew what to do and what not to do. What worked in ruling and what didn't work in ruling. Over time they were able to grow and change there ways of ruling for the better.

    ReplyDelete
  2. i think that a government can be responsible and strict at the same time. The people that were being governed didnt necessarily become more responsible, and therefore being strict and enforcing rules would be the necessary and responsible thing to do. It can be responsible to be strict in your governing and therefore both things can be achieved at the same time. When a government is responsible it does not mean that they become lax because if this were to happen most likely the people would fall back into old habits and tighter rules would become necessary, therefore defeating the purpose of becoming the lenient type of responsible.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Marjory, I was making the claim that the GOVERNMENT did not become more strict and responsible (NOT the people). You stated that the people may not have become more responsible, therefore having a strict government would be the responsible thing to do in order to manage society well. I will concede the fact that a government could become more responsible as well as strict (especially because responsible is such a loosely defined word), however I don't think this applies to the Ottoman Empire. As I stated in my original post, the Ottoman empire did not become more responsible (nor did it's people).

    Also, I wasn't saying that a responsible government becomes a 'lax' government, so I'm not sure what compelled you to contest/comment on an argument that I never supported. Additionally, I don't accept your claim that people would automatically fall into their old habits if not for harsh restrictions. What makes you believe that this statement is true? Why do you think that we need a government watching over us in order to lead responsible lives? Is the only reason why you lead a responsible life, because you fear the government? I don't think it is, especially because the government can't really require someone to be completely 'responsible' (again, depending on how one defines the word).

    Lastly, could you expand on what you mean by the 'leniant type of responsible'? Its slightly unclear as to what your trying to say with that phrase.

    Thanks for your response, especially for helping me change my stance on responsibility vs. strictness.

    -Cy

    ReplyDelete